I have always liked Tony Campolo (who, by the way, is speaking in Athens on May 10). I'm always challenged by his concern for the poor and the marginalized. And, his theology has always pushed me.
I'm challenged by the quotes below. I think it's good to talk about them and to discuss them and to wrestle with them.
But where does wrestling end and orthodoxy begin? At what point do we leave the fundamentals of the Christian faith? How do we see and understand the centrality of Jesus?
And yet, I confess I too believe that Jesus is bigger than we see or know or understand. That his love for the world may be bigger than some simple formula that brings people to faith ("ALL you have to do is simply...")
So here are some thoughts by Tony. Feel free to add your own.
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"I am saying that there is no salvation apart from Jesus; that's my evangelical mindset. However, I am not convinced that Jesus only lives in Christians"
-Tony Campolo
(National Liberty Journal, 8/99)
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"...what can I say to an Islamic brother who has fed the hungry, and clothed the naked? You say, "But he hasn't a personal relationship with Christ." I would argue with that. And I would say from a Christian perspective, in as much as you did it to the least of these you did it unto Christ. You did have a personal relationship with Christ, you just didn't know it."
-Tony Campolo
EVANGELICALS AND INTERFAITH COOPERATION, An Interview by Shane Claiborne
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"It seems to me that when we listen to the Muslim mystics as they talk about Jesus and their love for Jesus, I must say, it's a lot closer to New Testament Christianity than a lot of the Christians that I hear. In other words if we are looking for common ground, can we find it in mystical spirituality, even if we cannot theologically agree, Can we pray together in such a way that we connect with a God that transcends our theological differences?"
-Tony Campolo
EVANGELICALS AND INTERFAITH COOPERATION, An Interview by Shane Claiborne
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"Jesus is the only Savior, but not everybody who is being saved by Him is aware that He is the one who is doing the saving"
-Tony Campolo
EP News Service, Oct. 4, 1985
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"Today, some of the most spiritual people I know claim to be without religion."
-Tony Campolo
"Mystical Encounters for Christians"
www.beliefnet.com
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“What I am trying to say is that Jesus who incarnated God 2,000 years ago is mystically present and waiting to be discovered in EVERY person you and I encounter”
-Tony Campolo
"A Reasonable Faith" 1983 page 171
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“I do not mean that others represent Jesus for us. I mean that Jesus actually is present in each other person."
-Tony Campolo
"A Reasonable Faith" 1983 page 192
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"going to heaven is like going to Philadelphia...There are many ways....It doesn't make any difference how we go there. We all end up in the same place."
-Tony Campolo
"Carpe Diem: Seize the Day", 1994, pages 85-88
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"I'm not convinced that Jesus only lives in Christians."
-Tony Campolo
Charlie Rose show on January 24, 1997
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7 comments:
Wow. Those are challenging and intriguing comments. I wonder what experiences and scriptures led him to these thoughts. I always struggle with the fact that I know a hearty handful of folks who don't claim to love christ, but who are some of the most giving, gracious, generous, kind, merciful people I know. I think Tony is on to something...though he didn't come out and say it, one thought that occurs to me is that these people I refer to aren't bogged down by the "rules" and "confines" and "expectations" that often come along with religion, or the faith community. They don't sit around debating the most biblical way of doing this or that...they just live in a way that they know in their hearts is right without the pressures of obligation or impressing anyone. Maybe that is Jesus in there. As for the muslim mystics...I don't really know much about that, so I can't really comment. I've always really respected Tony C. and his encouragement to serve the poor - it's become fundamental to my own faith and I can't imagine that not being a part of it. The things that happen to you when you're serving the poor are so clearly from God. It's probably the only area of faith I don't continually get tripped up and confused about.
Good thoughts, Jessi. I too wonder what scriptures lead him to these conclusions... and yes, you and I both know some of them...
"one thought that occurs to me is that these people I refer to aren't bogged down by the "rules" and "confines" and "expectations" that often come along with religion, or the faith community. They don't sit around debating the most biblical way of doing this or that...they just live in a way that they know in their hearts is right without the pressures of obligation or impressing anyone."
This seems to be a pretty popular sentiment these days... but I'm not sure I buy it. I'm not sure our hearts are a great guide... and I'm not sure that that my "unbelieving" friends don't wrestle with as much crap as my "believing" friends. There seems to be a role for Jesus and I am starting to become very passionate that there is the role of the Church. (More and more I see people walk away from Christ who are not a part of a local church... imperfect as it is... many of them people who in college were passionate about Jesus.)
My struggle is that, yes, Jesus hung out with tax collectors, sinners, prostitutes, etc... but when he did, they willingly gave up those things and followed him. It was not that Jesus said, "Well, you are a nice person not bound by religion, so you are in..." but Jesus seems to "win" them over.
So they don't live "in the Kingdom" apart from Jesus, but because of Jesus.
I know I always run this risk of quoting scripture out of context but in the book Isaiah it says that our good works will seem as filthy rags in comparrision to the works of Christ. This is why asking Christ for his mercy seems to me to be so important. Can the Gods mercy be present in those who do not claim him, well to say no would be entering into a place of arrogance or even limiting God. Still I feel like saying no would be taking to first steps down the road of universalism.
On the other hand a seminary proff. who I really respected pointed out that when Jesus Say "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven," he does not put a Chrsitian qualifier on it which can give us a lot of hope for the Buddist in the middle of Bengladesh who in desperation calls out God have mercy on me, a sinner. Not to confuse hope with salvation.
I would like to finish this super long comment with this thought, I read an early theology of Unitarianism in college for an intellectual History class. It read like Christian Theology going out of its way to be more inclusive. Tony Campolo and Paul Risler have way more theological trainning than I do so I wont pretend that my arguments are stronger than theres.
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
"Tony Campolo and Paul Risler have way more theological trainning than I do..."
To be clear to my readers... I'm not sure I'm where Tony is on this issue. I posted to get some coversation going.
Paul said
My struggle is that, yes, Jesus hung out with tax collectors, sinners, prostitutes, etc... but when he did, they willingly gave up those things and followed him. It was not that Jesus said, "Well, you are a nice person not bound by religion, so you are in..." but Jesus seems to "win" them over.
And that's a good point, a major difference in Christian belief, and the real point, not judgement or condemnation or apathy.
This brings to my mind a further question : how is/can/should the church be Jesus to so convincingly "win" people over? And I think this discussion brings to light a key in our relationships with others, that we need to see Jesus already in them. This makes it more natural to do justly, love mercy and walk humbly.
this makes me think lots of things. i just don't know what they all are yet.
it certainly makes the What About Those People Who Are Really Nice But Don't Believe In Jesus question a lot easier to deal with. but does that make it true? i have no idea. i'm not sure i would stand behind a pulpit and preach all of these things, but it certainly does give me a new perspective on jesus and his involvement in the lives of all his children. interesting questions to ponder.
also: i am SO THERE on may 10.
also also: if going to heaven is like going to philadelphia, i may ask for a refund.
:)
I think somewhere here I lost the point about what is being debated. My initial impression was that the quotes posted by Tony brought up the idea that it's possible that the righteous acts of non-believers may be the result of God's work even if they don't know it's God yet. I, for one, am not saying that those people are or aren't going to heaven because of the good things they do. (I would tend to think no, but for the most part, the story in those people has only just begun...I have seen so many people that I have known come to faith. Dozens and dozens, literally...it's hard for me to plant anyone firmly in the "non-christian' camp, simply because I have had the blessing of seeing God move people along the continuum from "stauch atheist" or "Jesus hater" to the place where they know that in Christ dwells truth, grace and salvation)
I do find it confounding that the the fruits of the spirit, at times, can seem more evident in non-Christians than Christians - that has definitely been my experience at times. I have often thought this. Tony's comments seem to suggest that it's possible that this is actually God's work in them.
The things that I have observed in Christian communities that are disheartening seem to be less because of a desire to follow the will of God and moreso because of trends created by man - preachers telling their congregations to vote republican, groups of evangelicals "protesting" at gay people's funerals, these spoken and unspoken expectations (do this, don't do that) that change from congregation to congregation) the Christianese language that sounds weird and alienating to others.
Non-believers don't have those as a part of their life (granted, they also don't have the many potentially wonderful things that come from fellowship, like corporate worship, accountability, spurring one another on toward righteousness, etc.) and so their "good works" aren't due to the influences and pressures of following the local "rule book" and the struggle to appear an upright, sin-free member of a group of people. From my experience, I believe that while integrity and honest living is crucial, and letting a few people have access to your heart to help direct you down your path, at the same time, worrying too much about everyone around you is thinking of what you're doing causes you to be a slave to that community's opinion of you. Protecting your reputation becomes of higher importance than serving the community or God. Non-believers care just as much as Christians regarding what others think of them, but I think there is an extra layer with Christians, because we can beleive that our fellow Christians' opinions of us arthe reality, and indicative of our actual place in the Kingdom. Oh, she's "spiritually mature" - well, I must be very spiritually mature if so and so thinks so. Etc.
I just found it intriguing that it's possible that there might be an actual answer to what I've observed in non-Christians - and answer that I would be more comfortable with and joyful about than the other one which is "Being a Christian doesn't matter - Jesus is not connected to people's desire to do right." That doesn't sit right with me.
The things I say have a tendancy to sound more certain and more polarizing than I intend to. Unfortunately, what I mean to express as curiosities and unformed thoughts sometimes come off as taking one side of an argument...which is odd, considering most of the time, I am not quite sure what I think.
I appreciate the debate and sharings that transpire here though. It's always food for thought.
Happy Easter, folks.
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